12.15.06
Review on Dawkins’ God Delusion
On November 2, I posted a link to a light-hearted YouTube interview with Richard Dawkins by Stephen Colbert. I still have not read Dawkin’s book, The God Delusion, but I did find an interesting review of it on this forum. For those interested in the debates between atheism and Christianity, you might find the critique interesting particularly since this one seems to be from the viewpoint of an athiest. I know that the writer uses atheism vs. religion, but I believe that atheism is also a religion (a system of beliefs not based on scientific proof), so I think it more appropriate to discuss the topic under atheism vs. Christianity and other religions since there are many others, which are not technically Christian, but still fall under the religion category. I believe stating atheism vs. religion is erroneous like saying religion vs. religion, although I’m sure atheists would argue that atheism is not a religion, but science. Science does not prove there is no God, a fact that atheists just don’t seem to understand. Physics and chemistry are true sciences unlike the “theory” of evolution.
In a nutshell, Christianity has commonly been attacked by atheists saying that religion (especially Christianity) has been the cause of much of human suffering through religious wars and other rigid religious belief systems. On November 9, I posted an entry I titled “No Vacancy for Violence” wherein I briefly discussed mass murders and included a link to an article by George Koukl titled Real Murderers: Atheism or Christianity. I think his article gives an example of the debates regarding the accusations atheists have made towards religions, particularly Christianity.
Marlakins 
Andrea said,
December 15, 2006 at 11:10 am
Hi Marla–very very very interesting point, about atheism being a religion–a belief not based on science!! Wow, that’s so true, and fits in with something I thought of over the last few months, that some atheists are fundamentalist atheists–that is, intolerant of any belief but their own! Whoa, Marla, good thinking girl!
Thanks also for these links. But I think that people who do violent things in the name of Christianity, whether they are physically violent or the psychic violation of forcing them to leave their cultures behind, still create associations in everyone’s mind with Christianity. It is possible to interpret the Bible as supporting this.
I know personally at least one lovely woman who converted to Buddhism because, she said, it was the only religion that didn’t go to war. I thought she had a point. I personally feel very upset when a leader says he has Jesus in his heart, and then gives the go-ahead to torture. That’s not my Jesus!
But the fact that un-Christian things have been done in the name of Christ does NOT argue for atheism. That is faulty logic. Jesus himself predicted “wolves in sheep’s clothing” and said that “by their fruits you will know them.”
I also want to say that if evolution is true science, and I think it is, it by no means is logical to then say there is no God!! All it implies is that maybe the Bible speaks in metaphor as well as in literalness, NOT the existence of God.
I heard an agnostic on the radio say recently, “Yes, I am an agnositc now [he was raised Christian]–but I’m a happy agnostic.” I thought that was interesting, because he was implying, sort of that many atheists and agnostics are unhappy and bitter.
must go, Andrea
Andrea said,
December 15, 2006 at 1:24 pm
Hi, I had to stop sort of suddenly because my daughter needed the computer, and I sort of wanted to clarify. I don’t really want to get into an argument about evolution, because it doesn’t interest me that much.
What DOES interest me, though, is for Christians to honestly look at some behavior that has been done in the name of Christ, and understanding that some people may have legitimate problems with this. To be blunt, it gives Jesus a bad name, and it’s not His fault, but I think denying that it’s so doesn’t help either.
The good news, to me, is that it motivates Christians to actually LIVE the Word. If we are living the Spirit of Christ, people will notice, and that–and only that–will help to erase from their memories some of the less Christ-like behavior, which is a reality, and maybe remember a little better people like Stalin and Hitler (atheists).
I realize my comment about torture may raise some hackles, since everyone knows who I’m talking about, and that’s getting political which is maybe not such a good idea. I don’t really want to get into a political discussion, either.
But I stand by this–torture is not Christian, and when Christians do it or excuse it, people notice.
And become atheists.
Andrea
Administrator said,
December 16, 2006 at 7:08 pm
Hi Andrea:
Good comments, thanks for your thoughts on it. I agree that it would seem that those who leave Christianity because of what “men” do, haven’t really examined what it is that Jesus taught. Jesus taught to love. He cared for the sick, fed the people, and taught them about His love. He gave up His life for us. As He said, “Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.”
Now the war issue is interesting. Initially it does make one wonder about all the evil in the world. Recently I got into a discussion with someone regarding pain and suffering, and it did force me to think a bit. I think there are so many angles to look at pain and suffering, yet it seemed to me that it all stems from sin at some level. Some sin may be from ourselves, while other sins are from others by which we end up suffering as a result. But my point is that it is not Jesus or the principles He taught us to live by which should be blamed for wars, but rather our sinful nature. I mean think about why nations go to war. Commonly it’s for financial or territorial gain. Sometimes religion may seem to be intertwined, but it appears to me to come down to resources and territory–i.e. who this land “really” belongs to type thing. And I don’t think that’s something Jesus taught, and therefore He should not be blamed for that. So to turn away from Jesus because people go to war isn’t a very well thought-out move in my opinion. And then to join another religion for the sole purpose that they never went to war? Hmmm. That’s another red flag. There’s so much more to how life is lived than whether or not men go to war.
Torture is just more evil/sin as far as I’m concerned. I realise dying by the sword is no fun, but a quick, swift death (to me) is not the same as torture. And I’m sure there are many forms of torture, but basically if the one inflicting the pain prolongs it unnecessarily and purposefully, then that’s torture. Unfortunately some people actually enjoy it to some degree, too. That is definitely not something taught or encouraged in the Bible. But, honestly, I’m not sure to which torture you were referring to? Although going to war unnecessarily can be along the lines of torture, too, tho. Call me slow, but I need a bigger “hint” to who you’re referring to! Ha! But those are my initial thoughts on torture.
Okay! That’s all for now. Toodles!
Marla
Andrea said,
December 17, 2006 at 4:20 pm
Hi Marla, Yes, I agree that suffering stems from sin. But then–there’s the crucifixion. Jesus, who was sinless, certainly suffered. He chose to suffer. And I think sometimes ordinary people, in our small and imperfect ways, can suffer for a greater good, for someone who needs us, and that’s love, not sin. (Take Patti, for instance!)
I was referring to our President’s advisers, who re-interpreted both US and international law to make torture, as a way to get information out of suspects, OK. Although there is ample evidence that information gained this way is faulty. You see why I wanted to beat around the bush, (pun not intended!), I don’t want to offend people who may be more supportive of our admin.
And yes, I agree that none of this can be blamed on Jesus! Far from it. It is flawed people who perpetrate these acts.
Must go, Andrea